From george at galis.org  Wed Mar  1 21:03:30 2006
From: george at galis.org (George Georgalis)
Date: Wed Mar  1 21:03:36 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] Goldman jobs...
Message-ID: <20060302020330.GC24046@sta.duo>

I know a few on this list may be interested....

George,
I hope all is well.  I'm touching base because I need your help.
Goldman is holding an open house next Tuesday, to hire several mission
control production support consultants that can do Unix scripting.  It
is a long term contract paying 75-80 hr.   It is a mission control, high
pressure, trading system environment.  They need people to 'put-out
fires' quickly.  If you know anybody like this, I would like to
introduce myself to them.  Thanks.  And if you know anybody else in the
IT field looking, please let me know as well. 


if interested let me know and I'll forward the recruiter's;s contact,
my contact with this recruiter has been positive.

// George

-- 
George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator <IXOYE><
http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george@galis.org
From ike at lesmuug.org  Thu Mar  2 13:04:56 2006
From: ike at lesmuug.org (Isaac Levy)
Date: Thu Mar  2 13:05:01 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] Apple Intel Servers?
Message-ID: <80D39B12-5427-400D-8B2D-8E7B8ABA7370@lesmuug.org>

Hey Okan, All,

An officially relevant cross-post, (are they outlawed alltogether?)

Last night at NYCBUG Okan was asking me about Intel Apple stuff, and  
weather or not it uses Open Firmware.

--
I checked today to try to answer your question about Open Firmware on  
upcoming Intel Apple Servers, and there is no such thing as an Intel  
Apple Server (yet?).

With that,

http://appleintelfaq.com/#17

"Shipping Intel-based Macintosh computers use Intel's new Extensible  
Firmware Interface (EFI)[17.1]."

Suck.  Or mabye not- it's just new.
I'll miss Open Firmware, it's easy and well documented, it's Cisco- 
admin-friendly (it came from Sun back in the day), it's all FORTH  
syntax based.

:(

Rocket-
.ike


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Thu Mar  2 10:13:23 2006
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Thu Mar  2 13:14:25 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] Apple Intel Servers?
In-Reply-To: <80D39B12-5427-400D-8B2D-8E7B8ABA7370@lesmuug.org>
References: <80D39B12-5427-400D-8B2D-8E7B8ABA7370@lesmuug.org>
Message-ID: <20060302181323.GA20140@snax.spimageworks.com>

On Thu, Mar 02, 2006 at 01:04:56PM -0500, Isaac Levy wrote:
> Hey Okan, All,
> 
> An officially relevant cross-post, (are they outlawed alltogether?)
> 
> Last night at NYCBUG Okan was asking me about Intel Apple stuff, and  
> weather or not it uses Open Firmware.
> 
> --
> I checked today to try to answer your question about Open Firmware on  
> upcoming Intel Apple Servers, and there is no such thing as an Intel  
> Apple Server (yet?).
> 
> With that,
> 
> http://appleintelfaq.com/#17
> 
> "Shipping Intel-based Macintosh computers use Intel's new Extensible  
> Firmware Interface (EFI)[17.1]."
> 
> Suck.  Or mabye not- it's just new.
> I'll miss Open Firmware, it's easy and well documented, it's Cisco- 
> admin-friendly (it came from Sun back in the day), it's all FORTH  
> syntax based.
> 

i vaugly remember reading about how the mac/intel firmware may be coming
from the itanium family.  i've never used itanium, or an intel based mac
for that matter, but that was the impression i got from a freebsd dev a
while back....

-p


-- 
~~oO00Oo~~
Peter Wright
pete@nomadlogic.org
www.nomadlogic.org/~pete
917.415.9866

From george at sddi.net  Thu Mar  2 20:15:00 2006
From: george at sddi.net (George R.)
Date: Thu Mar  2 20:15:10 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] MacBook review. . .
Message-ID: <44079894.3010403@sddi.net>

I'm sure many of you have seen it. . .

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/macbookpro.ars

It is an enjoyable and useful review. . . from the performance and
compatibility issues all the way to the 'feeling' issues that are so
important on Macs, IMHO.

Particularly liked that she included the hacked Dell Inspiron.

Any thoughts anyone has on this?

As much as I would love to get one, I'm waiting on the next series of
them.  I'm sure the battery life will get a leap.  And I'm curious to
see the potential security implications of the Intel chip.

g
From jschauma at netmeister.org  Sun Mar  5 10:53:36 2006
From: jschauma at netmeister.org (Jan Schaumann)
Date: Sun Mar  5 10:47:57 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] amanda backup
Message-ID: <20060305155336.GA11890@netmeister.org>

Hi all,

So how are people doing regular automated backups of their HFS and HFS+
filesystems?  I set up amanda, but notice that dump(8) can't dump these
partitions.  tar(8) doesn't preserve resource forks.  So Apple ships
their BSD derived OS with tools that can't backup the normal standard
filesystem.  Brilliant.  (Does dump(8) even dump apple UFS
filesystems?)

Does Mac OS X have other tools that can create a proper backup of a
filesystem?

I've found hfstar and hfspax, which seem suitable for the task.  Anybody
using these?

-Jan

-- 
Wenn ich tot bin, mir soll mal Einer mit Auferstehung oder so
kommen, ich hau ihm eine rein! (Anonym)
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From jared at 23x.net  Sun Mar  5 17:11:56 2006
From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle)
Date: Sun Mar  5 11:12:02 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] amanda backup
In-Reply-To: <20060305155336.GA11890@netmeister.org>
References: <20060305155336.GA11890@netmeister.org>
Message-ID: <D70C5A00-45C2-498D-9A15-97596764FA33@23x.net>

On 5 Mar 2006, at 16:53, Jan Schaumann wrote:
> tar(8) doesn't preserve resource forks.

Yes it does.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/unix/

HFS+ CLI file commands
Use command-line commands safely on HFS+ files. Utilities such as cp,  
mv, tar, rsync now use the same standard APIs as Spotlight and access  
control lists to handle resource forks properly.

-- 
      Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net
        "Smell the fragrance of the feathers of the angel of SPORK!"

From jschauma at netmeister.org  Sun Mar  5 11:27:20 2006
From: jschauma at netmeister.org (Jan Schaumann)
Date: Sun Mar  5 11:21:34 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] amanda backup
In-Reply-To: <D70C5A00-45C2-498D-9A15-97596764FA33@23x.net>
References: <20060305155336.GA11890@netmeister.org>
	<D70C5A00-45C2-498D-9A15-97596764FA33@23x.net>
Message-ID: <20060305162720.GB11890@netmeister.org>

Jared ''Danger'' Earle <jared@23x.net> wrote:
> On 5 Mar 2006, at 16:53, Jan Schaumann wrote:
> >tar(8) doesn't preserve resource forks.
> 
> Yes it does.
> 
> http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/unix/
> 
> HFS+ CLI file commands
> Use command-line commands safely on HFS+ files. Utilities such as cp,  
> mv, tar, rsync now use the same standard APIs as Spotlight and access  
> control lists to handle resource forks properly.

Hey, I stand corrected.  That's good news.  Was that always the case?  I
seem to remember a tar that did not.  Maybe I'm just misremembering
something.

But why didn't they make dump(8) work, then, too?

-Jan

-- 
Free Speech Online - Stop Internet Censorship
   --- Electronic Frontier Foundation -- http://www.eff.org ---
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From jared at 23x.net  Sun Mar  5 17:33:05 2006
From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle)
Date: Sun Mar  5 11:33:13 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] amanda backup
In-Reply-To: <20060305162720.GB11890@netmeister.org>
References: <20060305155336.GA11890@netmeister.org>
	<D70C5A00-45C2-498D-9A15-97596764FA33@23x.net>
	<20060305162720.GB11890@netmeister.org>
Message-ID: <CBFEE11D-5926-4513-8E43-A8EC161322BF@23x.net>

On 5 Mar 2006, at 17:27, Jan Schaumann wrote:
> Hey, I stand corrected.  That's good news.  Was that always the  
> case?  I
> seem to remember a tar that did not.  Maybe I'm just misremembering
> something.

This is new with 10.4 so you're not misremembering.

> But why didn't they make dump(8) work, then, too?

Because it's very, very broken?

-- 
     Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net
     "Toss the SPORK! Toss the SPORK!
                And travel back through time with the aid of chance."

From ike at lesmuug.org  Sun Mar  5 17:03:22 2006
From: ike at lesmuug.org (Isaac Levy)
Date: Sun Mar  5 17:03:35 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] amanda backup
In-Reply-To: <CBFEE11D-5926-4513-8E43-A8EC161322BF@23x.net>
References: <20060305155336.GA11890@netmeister.org>
	<D70C5A00-45C2-498D-9A15-97596764FA33@23x.net>
	<20060305162720.GB11890@netmeister.org>
	<CBFEE11D-5926-4513-8E43-A8EC161322BF@23x.net>
Message-ID: <6648D31D-AF96-4292-BE0A-EFCB7417062A@lesmuug.org>

Hi Jan,

On Mar 5, 2006, at 11:33 AM, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote:

> On 5 Mar 2006, at 17:27, Jan Schaumann wrote:
>
>> But why didn't they make dump(8) work, then, too?
>
> Because it's very, very broken?


I don't officially know what Apple's 'best practices' are for dump  
type backups here, but the functionality you are looking for is  
historically handled by making disk images - (or, file-backed memory  
disks, in the *BSD world).

With that, disk images can be manipulated from the cli using hdiutil 
(1), and from the Finder using 'Disk Utility.app'.

One can restore entire disks from disk images using the Apple  
installer tools, etc...  The disk images can be encrypted, (AES), you  
can make sparse disk images, whatever.  It's all pretty mature at  
this point.  I've used disk images on apple for many years, in many  
contexts and applications, and I find them really delightful to work  
with- ease and maturity for the user design that I miss on other  
platforms.

--
Just my .02? here, I'm not sure if your looking for an 'Apple  
Solution' for backups here, or just trying to get Amanda to work...

As an aside, this article explains how to get Amanda working, using  
Apple UFS formatted volumes, not sure if it's useful for you or not:
https://webserver.brandeis.edu/pages/view/Bio/AmandaMacOSXCompileNotes

--
As another aside, Bacula seems to have a much larger group of OSX  
platform users:
http://www.bacula.org/

I don't use either, I'm just regurgitating what I understand from  
seeing Dan Langille lecture about Bacula- I hope my rambling helps  
more than confuses the subject.

Best,
.ike


From jschauma at netmeister.org  Sun Mar  5 17:23:36 2006
From: jschauma at netmeister.org (Jan Schaumann)
Date: Sun Mar  5 17:17:54 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] amanda backup
In-Reply-To: <6648D31D-AF96-4292-BE0A-EFCB7417062A@lesmuug.org>
References: <20060305155336.GA11890@netmeister.org>
	<D70C5A00-45C2-498D-9A15-97596764FA33@23x.net>
	<20060305162720.GB11890@netmeister.org>
	<CBFEE11D-5926-4513-8E43-A8EC161322BF@23x.net>
	<6648D31D-AF96-4292-BE0A-EFCB7417062A@lesmuug.org>
Message-ID: <20060305222336.GA8126@netmeister.org>

Isaac Levy <ike@lesmuug.org> wrote:
 
> With that, disk images can be manipulated from the cli using hdiutil 
> (1), and from the Finder using 'Disk Utility.app'.

Yes, I thought of that, too.  But we currently do use amanda for all
backups, so finding a tool that works with amanda is the objective.  If
tar(1) now understands resource forks et al, then that should work.

On the other hand, I wonder if I could simply stream a .dmg back to
amanda.  Hmmm...

> Just my .02? here, I'm not sure if your looking for an 'Apple  
> Solution' for backups here, or just trying to get Amanda to work...

Yupp, that's what I need.  I'd prefer to find a solution and not Yet
Another Gruesome Hack To Make OS X Do What I Need. :)

> As an aside, this article explains how to get Amanda working, using  
> Apple UFS formatted volumes, not sure if it's useful for you or not:
> https://webserver.brandeis.edu/pages/view/Bio/AmandaMacOSXCompileNotes

Sorry, the filesystems in question are HFS(+).

> As another aside, Bacula seems to have a much larger group of OSX  
> platform users:
> http://www.bacula.org/

Yes, bacula.  I have been meaning to take a serious look at this, for a
number of reasons.  But then, amanda is currently working (FSVO
``working'') and I'm not too keen on switching my entire backup system
at this point.

-Jan 

-- 
http://www.ncadp.org
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From ike at lesmuug.org  Sun Mar  5 19:21:02 2006
From: ike at lesmuug.org (Isaac Levy)
Date: Sun Mar  5 19:21:15 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] amanda backup
In-Reply-To: <20060305222336.GA8126@netmeister.org>
References: <20060305155336.GA11890@netmeister.org>
	<D70C5A00-45C2-498D-9A15-97596764FA33@23x.net>
	<20060305162720.GB11890@netmeister.org>
	<CBFEE11D-5926-4513-8E43-A8EC161322BF@23x.net>
	<6648D31D-AF96-4292-BE0A-EFCB7417062A@lesmuug.org>
	<20060305222336.GA8126@netmeister.org>
Message-ID: <2EDE8D2B-7E66-4207-B3A1-CCC08243589B@lesmuug.org>

Hi Jan,

On Mar 5, 2006, at 5:23 PM, Jan Schaumann wrote:

> Isaac Levy <ike@lesmuug.org> wrote:
>
>> With that, disk images can be manipulated from the cli using hdiutil
>> (1), and from the Finder using 'Disk Utility.app'.
>
> Yes, I thought of that, too.  But we currently do use amanda for all
> backups, so finding a tool that works with amanda is the  
> objective.  If
> tar(1) now understands resource forks et al, then that should work.
>
> On the other hand, I wonder if I could simply stream a .dmg back to
> amanda.  Hmmm...

I bet you could- pipes work on Darwin/OSX :)

  I somehow seem to remember tons of hdiutil(1) scripters posting all  
kinds of goodies on <http://macosxhints.com/> , including simple  
network backups, etc...

>
>> Just my .02? here, I'm not sure if your looking for an 'Apple
>> Solution' for backups here, or just trying to get Amanda to work...
>
> Yupp, that's what I need.  I'd prefer to find a solution and not Yet
> Another Gruesome Hack To Make OS X Do What I Need. :)

Uh-oh- what kind of gruesome hacks? :)

>
>> As an aside, this article explains how to get Amanda working, using
>> Apple UFS formatted volumes, not sure if it's useful for you or not:
>> https://webserver.brandeis.edu/pages/view/Bio/ 
>> AmandaMacOSXCompileNotes
>
> Sorry, the filesystems in question are HFS(+).

Dig.  Yeah.

>
>> As another aside, Bacula seems to have a much larger group of OSX
>> platform users:
>> http://www.bacula.org/
>
> Yes, bacula.  I have been meaning to take a serious look at this,  
> for a
> number of reasons.  But then, amanda is currently working (FSVO
> ``working'') and I'm not too keen on switching my entire backup system
> at this point.

/me sighs

Off topic, is there some feature/working reason that Amanda actually  
saves you time, or helps you backup systems in your enviornment?   
i.e. is it a scale thing, lots of machines?  Just curious-

Rocket-
.ike


From jschauma at netmeister.org  Sun Mar  5 22:41:23 2006
From: jschauma at netmeister.org (Jan Schaumann)
Date: Sun Mar  5 22:35:39 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] amanda backup
In-Reply-To: <2EDE8D2B-7E66-4207-B3A1-CCC08243589B@lesmuug.org>
References: <20060305155336.GA11890@netmeister.org>
	<D70C5A00-45C2-498D-9A15-97596764FA33@23x.net>
	<20060305162720.GB11890@netmeister.org>
	<CBFEE11D-5926-4513-8E43-A8EC161322BF@23x.net>
	<6648D31D-AF96-4292-BE0A-EFCB7417062A@lesmuug.org>
	<20060305222336.GA8126@netmeister.org>
	<2EDE8D2B-7E66-4207-B3A1-CCC08243589B@lesmuug.org>
Message-ID: <20060306034123.GB22236@netmeister.org>

Isaac Levy <ike@lesmuug.org> wrote:
 
> On Mar 5, 2006, at 5:23 PM, Jan Schaumann wrote:

> >Yupp, that's what I need.  I'd prefer to find a solution and not Yet
> >Another Gruesome Hack To Make OS X Do What I Need. :)
> 
> Uh-oh- what kind of gruesome hacks? :)

Oh, nothing in particular.  I've just been frustrated with a number of
issues since I've found myself responsible for a lab of those Mac OS X
things.  In particular, commercial applications seem to always assume
that the person wanting to run the app is necessarily an administrator
and can write to, say, /Library/Preferences or /Application/<appname> or
whatever.  I've been ktracing through almost all big add-on
applications.

OS X really does not play all that well in a heterogenous multi-user
network.  As somebody else said, Apple makes things really easy, as long
as they anticipate what you may want to do.  The things they did not
anticipate you might want to do are often incredibly cumbersome, if not
impossible.

> Off topic, is there some feature/working reason that Amanda actually  
> saves you time, or helps you backup systems in your enviornment?   
> i.e. is it a scale thing, lots of machines?  Just curious-

Well, we currently back up about 1.3 TB from three NetBSD servers, a
Linux and an IRIX server via amanda to a NetBSD backup host.  Adding the
200 GB (at the moment) from the Mac OS X server would not be a problem
as far as the tape library is concerned, so I was hoping for a simple
``install amanda on OS X, add host/disk to config, done'' solution.

So far I've gotten to ``install amanda on OS X, add host/disk to
config''.  The ``done'' part is what usually proves to be the tricky
one.

-Jan

-- 
Free Speech Online - Stop Internet Censorship
   --- Electronic Frontier Foundation -- http://www.eff.org ---
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From george at galis.org  Mon Mar  6 16:29:09 2006
From: george at galis.org (George Georgalis)
Date: Mon Mar  6 16:29:18 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] Re: amanda backup
In-Reply-To: <20060305155336.GA11890@netmeister.org>
References: <20060305155336.GA11890@netmeister.org>
Message-ID: <20060306212909.GC8283@sta.duo>

On Sun, Mar 05, 2006 at 10:53:36AM -0500, Jan Schaumann wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>So how are people doing regular automated backups of their HFS and HFS+
>filesystems?  I set up amanda, but notice that dump(8) can't dump these
>partitions.  tar(8) doesn't preserve resource forks.  So Apple ships
>their BSD derived OS with tools that can't backup the normal standard
>filesystem.  Brilliant.  (Does dump(8) even dump apple UFS
>filesystems?)
>
>Does Mac OS X have other tools that can create a proper backup of a
>filesystem?

well this thread has a lotta stuff I never use, but my solution has been

 rsync -ah --delete --link-dest=$LAST_DATE source/ backup/$NEW_DATE/

(options from memory). So when you do a backup, each NEW_DATE
directory has a full copy of the source, however hardlinks are
made for files that didn't change since the last run. You probably
want to use --numeric-ids and root, if you are backing up a system
to a separate system. Or you can use single user if that's all
you're interested in.

I've not experimented with consumption of hardlinks, not sure if
that is an issue with HFS+ but they may be something to watch out
for.

When you're setup, you can do full backups quite frequently with
nominal resources.

// George


-- 
George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator <IXOYE><
http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george@galis.org
From george at galis.org  Tue Mar  7 13:34:13 2006
From: george at galis.org (George Georgalis)
Date: Tue Mar  7 13:34:16 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] new jobs...
Message-ID: <20060307183413.GB9318@sta.duo>


Folks, I told this recruiter to use jobs@list.nysa.org
and subscribe with jobs-subscribe@list.nysa.org
he'll probably repost with contact there....

though BOFH might not be a bad place to admin. :)

// George





George,
(Thanks for the other ref)
I hope all is well.  I need your help.  I'm looking for several Program
Trading Linux/Unix SA's.  It is a contract-to-hire role @ BOFA.  It is
paying 85hr.  Let me know who I can introduce myself to.

Right to hire linux / unix SA. 
 
pay 85/hr
 
must have one or all of the business experience
1. Equity
2. Program trading
3. Electronic trading
4. Ecommerce
5. Tradefloor
 
Former development experience strongly prefered.
 






-- 
George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator <IXOYE><
http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george@galis.org
From george at galis.org  Wed Mar 15 11:29:45 2006
From: george at galis.org (George Georgalis)
Date: Wed Mar 15 11:29:50 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] looking for mac-winscp
Message-ID: <20060315162945.GA12397@sta.duo>

Has anyone here used winscp? It is quite a bit more than the
openssh scp command.

Anyway, we (here at $WORK) are looking to turn off the Samba
protocol entirely on the local network.  While the workstations
here are mostly M$, there is a plan to switch over to Mac; but for
the time being, mine is one of two computers running Mac.

In the past, I've setup the apple file share protocol (nettalk
I think it's called) but I'd prefer not starting a new service
just as another is being taken down. NFS is not an option as more
authentication is needed than that provides.

So in a nutshell, winscp is a perfect solution but it doesn't run
on Mac, as far as I can tell. Is anybody using something similar
to get authenticated, browsable, gui file sharing? I'm happy to
use command line or the finder to access the files, but command
line scp is not enough, I need a mounted filesystem or virtually
that.

// George

-- 
George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator <IXOYE><
http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george@galis.org
From bschonhorst at vcsnyc.org  Wed Mar 15 12:13:28 2006
From: bschonhorst at vcsnyc.org (Brad Schonhorst)
Date: Wed Mar 15 12:13:33 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] looking for mac-winscp
In-Reply-To: <20060315162945.GA12397@sta.duo>
References: <20060315162945.GA12397@sta.duo>
Message-ID: <C3FA4823-8F3C-4B6E-B448-E89FF5F99381@vcsnyc.org>


On Mar 15, 2006, at 11:29 AM, George Georgalis wrote:

> Has anyone here used winscp? It is quite a bit more than the
> openssh scp command.
>
> Anyway, we (here at $WORK) are looking to turn off the Samba
> protocol entirely on the local network.  While the workstations
> here are mostly M$, there is a plan to switch over to Mac; but for
> the time being, mine is one of two computers running Mac.
>
> In the past, I've setup the apple file share protocol (nettalk
> I think it's called) but I'd prefer not starting a new service
> just as another is being taken down. NFS is not an option as more
> authentication is needed than that provides.
>
> So in a nutshell, winscp is a perfect solution but it doesn't run
> on Mac, as far as I can tell. Is anybody using something similar
> to get authenticated, browsable, gui file sharing? I'm happy to
> use command line or the finder to access the files, but command
> line scp is not enough, I need a mounted filesystem or virtually
> that.
>
>

Hey George-

I am not sure I understand exactly what you are looking for but if  
its a GUI frontend to run on a mac for ssh/scp then fugu might be  
worth trying:

http://rsug.itd.umich.edu/software/fugu/


-brad

-------------------------------------
Brad Schonhorst
Network Administrator
Village Community School


From george at galis.org  Wed Mar 15 13:27:30 2006
From: george at galis.org (George Georgalis)
Date: Wed Mar 15 13:27:33 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] looking for mac-winscp
In-Reply-To: <C3FA4823-8F3C-4B6E-B448-E89FF5F99381@vcsnyc.org>
References: <20060315162945.GA12397@sta.duo>
	<C3FA4823-8F3C-4B6E-B448-E89FF5F99381@vcsnyc.org>
Message-ID: <20060315182730.GB12397@sta.duo>

On Wed, Mar 15, 2006 at 12:13:28PM -0500, Brad Schonhorst wrote:
>I am not sure I understand exactly what you are looking for but if  
>its a GUI frontend to run on a mac for ssh/scp then fugu might be  
>worth trying:
>
>http://rsug.itd.umich.edu/software/fugu/

per the screen shots, that looks exactly what I'm looking for.

Thanks,
// George


-- 
George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator <IXOYE><
http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george@galis.org
From ike at lesmuug.org  Wed Mar 15 13:27:43 2006
From: ike at lesmuug.org (Isaac Levy)
Date: Wed Mar 15 13:28:01 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] looking for mac-winscp
In-Reply-To: <C3FA4823-8F3C-4B6E-B448-E89FF5F99381@vcsnyc.org>
References: <20060315162945.GA12397@sta.duo>
	<C3FA4823-8F3C-4B6E-B448-E89FF5F99381@vcsnyc.org>
Message-ID: <8A76B8A9-4B8D-41E7-AA1E-8CE4A9B56B3A@lesmuug.org>

On Mar 15, 2006, at 12:13 PM, Brad Schonhorst wrote:

>> So in a nutshell, winscp is a perfect solution but it doesn't run
>> on Mac, as far as I can tell. Is anybody using something similar
>> to get authenticated, browsable, gui file sharing? I'm happy to
>> use command line or the finder to access the files, but command
>> line scp is not enough, I need a mounted filesystem or virtually
>> that.
>>
>>
>
> Hey George-
>
> I am not sure I understand exactly what you are looking for but if  
> its a GUI frontend to run on a mac for ssh/scp then fugu might be  
> worth trying:
>
> http://rsug.itd.umich.edu/software/fugu/
>
>
> -brad

I'll second Fugu.

Rocket-
.ike


From george at galis.org  Wed Mar 15 13:48:50 2006
From: george at galis.org (George Georgalis)
Date: Wed Mar 15 13:48:53 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] looking for mac-winscp
In-Reply-To: <8A76B8A9-4B8D-41E7-AA1E-8CE4A9B56B3A@lesmuug.org>
References: <20060315162945.GA12397@sta.duo>
	<C3FA4823-8F3C-4B6E-B448-E89FF5F99381@vcsnyc.org>
	<8A76B8A9-4B8D-41E7-AA1E-8CE4A9B56B3A@lesmuug.org>
Message-ID: <20060315184850.GC12397@sta.duo>

On Wed, Mar 15, 2006 at 01:27:43PM -0500, Isaac Levy wrote:
>On Mar 15, 2006, at 12:13 PM, Brad Schonhorst wrote:
>
>>>So in a nutshell, winscp is a perfect solution but it doesn't run
>>>on Mac, as far as I can tell. Is anybody using something similar
>>>to get authenticated, browsable, gui file sharing? I'm happy to
>>>use command line or the finder to access the files, but command
>>>line scp is not enough, I need a mounted filesystem or virtually
>>>that.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Hey George-
>>
>>I am not sure I understand exactly what you are looking for but if  
>>its a GUI frontend to run on a mac for ssh/scp then fugu might be  
>>worth trying:
>>
>>http://rsug.itd.umich.edu/software/fugu/
>>
>>
>>-brad
>
>I'll second Fugu.

works fine, I'll miss double clicking on pdf to "virtually open
from remote" (winscp/finder) and having a local mount points
(samba). it also is missing a rsync like feature of winscp, but it
does the job.

Thanks,
// George


-- 
George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator <IXOYE><
http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george@galis.org
From jschauma at netmeister.org  Wed Mar 15 16:38:09 2006
From: jschauma at netmeister.org (Jan Schaumann)
Date: Wed Mar 15 16:31:43 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] amanda backup
In-Reply-To: <20060306034123.GB22236@netmeister.org>
References: <20060305155336.GA11890@netmeister.org>
	<D70C5A00-45C2-498D-9A15-97596764FA33@23x.net>
	<20060305162720.GB11890@netmeister.org>
	<CBFEE11D-5926-4513-8E43-A8EC161322BF@23x.net>
	<6648D31D-AF96-4292-BE0A-EFCB7417062A@lesmuug.org>
	<20060305222336.GA8126@netmeister.org>
	<2EDE8D2B-7E66-4207-B3A1-CCC08243589B@lesmuug.org>
	<20060306034123.GB22236@netmeister.org>
Message-ID: <20060315213809.GA16321@netmeister.org>

Jan Schaumann <jschauma@netmeister.org> wrote:
 
> So far I've gotten to ``install amanda on OS X, add host/disk to
> config''.  The ``done'' part is what usually proves to be the tricky
> one.

Still not quite there, but at least I have a working backup system.
I've installed amanda from pkgsrc [1], and set the backup server to use
tar(1) on this host instead of dump.  So far so good.

I started amandad from xinetd(8), and did a backup.  So far so good.

I had to reboot the machine, and amanda no longer listens.  I don't know
what exactly the magic is that Mac OS X wants me to perform, but
apparently xinetd(8) is no longer starting the service which I added to
/etc/xinetd.d/amanda.

If I log in and kill -HUP xinetd, then it will work.

Alright, so I think that I go and find out what the way is that Apple
wants me to do these things.  I hear and read about launchd(8).  I
create a amanda.plist [2] for launchd and place it into
/Library/LaunchDaemons/.  I 'launchctl load
/Library/LaunchDaemons/amanda.plist'.  I see it's listed via 'launchctl
list'.  I see it's listening via netstat(1).  I think I'm golden.

I reboot, and launchd did not start amanda.  'launchctl list' does show
it, though.  If I 'launchctl unload' it and then 'launchctl load' it
again, everything's working.

So... how do I get it to start at boot time?  Anybody?

-Jan


[1] http://www.pkgsrc.org

[2] Below:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple Computer//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
	<key>Label</key>
	<string>org.amanda.amanda</string>
	<key>OnDemand</key>
	<true/>
	<key>ProgramArguments</key>
	<array>
		<string>/Volumes/pkgsrc/pkg/libexec/amandad</string>
	</array>
	<key>ServiceDescription</key>
	<string>Amanda Backup Daemon</string>
	<key>Sockets</key>
	<dict>
		<key>Listeners</key>
		<dict>
			<key>SockNodeName</key>
			<string>192.168.0.8</string>
			<key>SockServiceName</key>
			<string>amanda</string>
			<key>SockType</key>
			<string>dgram</string>
		</dict>
	</dict>
	<key>UserName</key>
	<string>backup</string>
	<key>GroupName</key>
	<string>operator</string>
	<key>InitGroups</key>
	<true/>
	<key>inetdCompatibility</key>
	<dict>
		<key>Wait</key>
		<true/>
	</dict>
</dict>
</plist>

-- 
"When it's fall in New York, the air smells as if someone's been frying
goats in it, and if you are keen to breathe the best plan is to open a
window and stick your head in a building."
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From ike at lesmuug.org  Wed Mar 15 17:18:11 2006
From: ike at lesmuug.org (Isaac Levy)
Date: Wed Mar 15 17:18:15 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] amanda backup
In-Reply-To: <20060315213809.GA16321@netmeister.org>
References: <20060305155336.GA11890@netmeister.org>
	<D70C5A00-45C2-498D-9A15-97596764FA33@23x.net>
	<20060305162720.GB11890@netmeister.org>
	<CBFEE11D-5926-4513-8E43-A8EC161322BF@23x.net>
	<6648D31D-AF96-4292-BE0A-EFCB7417062A@lesmuug.org>
	<20060305222336.GA8126@netmeister.org>
	<2EDE8D2B-7E66-4207-B3A1-CCC08243589B@lesmuug.org>
	<20060306034123.GB22236@netmeister.org>
	<20060315213809.GA16321@netmeister.org>
Message-ID: <8807660C-7C31-4B1C-B46C-42733031C2E9@lesmuug.org>

Hi Jan,

I'm a bit confused about what your asking, as I've forgotten a lot of  
the original post.

Are you working purely with OSX machines here, or is there some  
NetBSD server you are backing up to?

On Mar 15, 2006, at 4:38 PM, Jan Schaumann wrote:

> Jan Schaumann <jschauma@netmeister.org> wrote:
>
>> So far I've gotten to ``install amanda on OS X, add host/disk to
>> config''.  The ``done'' part is what usually proves to be the tricky
>> one.
>
> Still not quite there, but at least I have a working backup system.
> I've installed amanda from pkgsrc [1],

On OSX or on some other platform?

> and set the backup server to use
> tar(1) on this host instead of dump.  So far so good.

Great-

>
> I started amandad from xinetd(8), and did a backup.  So far so good.
>
> I had to reboot the machine, and amanda no longer listens.  I don't  
> know
> what exactly the magic is that Mac OS X wants me to perform, but
> apparently xinetd(8) is no longer starting the service which I  
> added to
> /etc/xinetd.d/amanda.

Is that script OK?  Are you using it along side the launchd stuff you  
mention below, or separately?

>
> If I log in and kill -HUP xinetd, then it will work.
>
> Alright, so I think that I go and find out what the way is that Apple
> wants me to do these things.  I hear and read about launchd(8).

"Getting Started with launchd"
http://developer.apple.com/macosx/launchd.html

Man page for launchd(8)
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/ 
man8/launchd.8.html

Man page for launchd.plist(5)
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/ 
man5/launchd.plist.5.html#//apple_ref/doc/man/5/launchd.plist

--
To my knowledge, launchd is going to stay for the long-haul, and also  
in FreeBSD world, a number of core people are looking to make launchd  
the new starter service on FreeBSD (I think we'll see when FreeBSD 7  
gets closer to REL, I understand some folks don't like the XML  
involved and want to stick to the ol' reliable rc subsystem.)

With all that stated, it seems this is about as close to  
standardizing methodology as money is buying.

> I
> create a amanda.plist [2] for launchd and place it into
> /Library/LaunchDaemons/.  I 'launchctl load
> /Library/LaunchDaemons/amanda.plist'.  I see it's listed via  
> 'launchctl
> list'.  I see it's listening via netstat(1).  I think I'm golden.
>
> I reboot, and launchd did not start amanda.  'launchctl list' does  
> show
> it, though.  If I 'launchctl unload' it and then 'launchctl load' it
> again, everything's working.
>
> So... how do I get it to start at boot time?  Anybody?
>
> -Jan

I really think it's something in the start script you provided below-  
but since I'm not using amanda, and don't know anybody on list who  
is, I don't know what to tell you about where it's borking.

Perhaps it's something as simple as a permissions issue?  Or or  
perhasp some load-order issue?

I'm comparing your file to something I know is working on a machine  
here:
/System/Library/LaunchDaemons/ssh.plist
to see if there's anything that sticks out to me- but they're too  
different, so I'm still stumped.

--
So I guess I didn't really help any with this thread, except to go  
over some of the obvious stuff...

Rocket-
.ike



>
>
> [1] http://www.pkgsrc.org
>
> [2] Below:
>
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
> <!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple Computer//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN"  
> "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
> <plist version="1.0">
> <dict>
> 	<key>Label</key>
> 	<string>org.amanda.amanda</string>
> 	<key>OnDemand</key>
> 	<true/>
> 	<key>ProgramArguments</key>
> 	<array>
> 		<string>/Volumes/pkgsrc/pkg/libexec/amandad</string>
> 	</array>
> 	<key>ServiceDescription</key>
> 	<string>Amanda Backup Daemon</string>
> 	<key>Sockets</key>
> 	<dict>
> 		<key>Listeners</key>
> 		<dict>
> 			<key>SockNodeName</key>
> 			<string>192.168.0.8</string>
> 			<key>SockServiceName</key>
> 			<string>amanda</string>
> 			<key>SockType</key>
> 			<string>dgram</string>
> 		</dict>
> 	</dict>
> 	<key>UserName</key>
> 	<string>backup</string>
> 	<key>GroupName</key>
> 	<string>operator</string>
> 	<key>InitGroups</key>
> 	<true/>
> 	<key>inetdCompatibility</key>
> 	<dict>
> 		<key>Wait</key>
> 		<true/>
> 	</dict>
> </dict>
> </plist>
>
> -- 
From ike at lesmuug.org  Wed Mar 15 17:30:46 2006
From: ike at lesmuug.org (Isaac Levy)
Date: Wed Mar 15 17:30:49 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] amanda backup
In-Reply-To: <8807660C-7C31-4B1C-B46C-42733031C2E9@lesmuug.org>
References: <20060305155336.GA11890@netmeister.org>
	<D70C5A00-45C2-498D-9A15-97596764FA33@23x.net>
	<20060305162720.GB11890@netmeister.org>
	<CBFEE11D-5926-4513-8E43-A8EC161322BF@23x.net>
	<6648D31D-AF96-4292-BE0A-EFCB7417062A@lesmuug.org>
	<20060305222336.GA8126@netmeister.org>
	<2EDE8D2B-7E66-4207-B3A1-CCC08243589B@lesmuug.org>
	<20060306034123.GB22236@netmeister.org>
	<20060315213809.GA16321@netmeister.org>
	<8807660C-7C31-4B1C-B46C-42733031C2E9@lesmuug.org>
Message-ID: <2487925F-4E10-4E3E-B039-E4627B025DAD@lesmuug.org>

Oh!  I *think* I found it,

On Mar 15, 2006, at 5:18 PM, Isaac Levy wrote:

<snip>
>
> I'm comparing your file to something I know is working on a machine  
> here:
> /System/Library/LaunchDaemons/ssh.plist
> to see if there's anything that sticks out to me- but they're too  
> different, so I'm still stumped.
>
> --
> So I guess I didn't really help any with this thread, except to go  
> over some of the obvious stuff...

 From the launchd.plist(5) man page:

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/ 
man5/launchd.plist.5.html#//apple_ref/doc/man/5/launchd.plist


     "OnDemand <boolean>
      This optional key is used to control whether your job is  
launched based
      on demand or to be kept continuously running. The default is  
true."


Your script uses this OnDemand key, other scripts I found that I know  
work (apple setup) do not use this key.

--
Also, perhaps of use, I noted that smbd.plist uses:

	<key>inetdCompatibility</key>
	<dict>
		<key>Wait</key>
		<false/>
	</dict>

     "inetdCompatibility <dictionary>
      The presence of this key specifies that the daemon expects to  
be run as
      if it were launched from inetd(8).  This flag is incompatible  
with the
      ServiceIPC key."

--
If I were you I'd try hacking the startup script, copying directly  
from some similar daemon- smbd perhaps- and see how it goes from  
there...  The man page, and options, are dizzying IMHO...

Rocket-
.ike



>
>>
>>
>> [1] http://www.pkgsrc.org
>>
>> [2] Below:
>>
>> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
>> <!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple Computer//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN"  
>> "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
>> <plist version="1.0">
>> <dict>
>> 	<key>Label</key>
>> 	<string>org.amanda.amanda</string>
>> 	<key>OnDemand</key>
>> 	<true/>
>> 	<key>ProgramArguments</key>
>> 	<array>
>> 		<string>/Volumes/pkgsrc/pkg/libexec/amandad</string>
>> 	</array>
>> 	<key>ServiceDescription</key>
>> 	<string>Amanda Backup Daemon</string>
>> 	<key>Sockets</key>
>> 	<dict>
>> 		<key>Listeners</key>
>> 		<dict>
>> 			<key>SockNodeName</key>
>> 			<string>192.168.0.8</string>
>> 			<key>SockServiceName</key>
>> 			<string>amanda</string>
>> 			<key>SockType</key>
>> 			<string>dgram</string>
>> 		</dict>
>> 	</dict>
>> 	<key>UserName</key>
>> 	<string>backup</string>
>> 	<key>GroupName</key>
>> 	<string>operator</string>
>> 	<key>InitGroups</key>
>> 	<true/>
>> 	<key>inetdCompatibility</key>
>> 	<dict>
>> 		<key>Wait</key>
>> 		<true/>
>> 	</dict>
>> </dict>
>> </plist>
>>
>> -- 

From jschauma at netmeister.org  Wed Mar 15 18:15:19 2006
From: jschauma at netmeister.org (Jan Schaumann)
Date: Wed Mar 15 18:08:54 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] amanda backup
In-Reply-To: <8807660C-7C31-4B1C-B46C-42733031C2E9@lesmuug.org>
References: <20060305155336.GA11890@netmeister.org>
	<D70C5A00-45C2-498D-9A15-97596764FA33@23x.net>
	<20060305162720.GB11890@netmeister.org>
	<CBFEE11D-5926-4513-8E43-A8EC161322BF@23x.net>
	<6648D31D-AF96-4292-BE0A-EFCB7417062A@lesmuug.org>
	<20060305222336.GA8126@netmeister.org>
	<2EDE8D2B-7E66-4207-B3A1-CCC08243589B@lesmuug.org>
	<20060306034123.GB22236@netmeister.org>
	<20060315213809.GA16321@netmeister.org>
	<8807660C-7C31-4B1C-B46C-42733031C2E9@lesmuug.org>
Message-ID: <20060315231518.GA18454@netmeister.org>

Isaac Levy <ike@lesmuug.org> wrote:
 
> I'm a bit confused about what your asking, as I've forgotten a lot of  
> the original post.

Heh, no problem.  I had hoped the post itself would be sufficient to
pose a question.  The question ultimately was: why does launchd not
automatically start my new service?  (The fact that the service is
amanda is rather tangential by now.)

> Are you working purely with OSX machines here, or is there some  
> NetBSD server you are backing up to?

The backup server is NetBSD, the OS X is just one of the machines that
are being backed up.  The way amanda works, you need to have the amanda
client running on each of the machines you want to backup, so the amanda
process can connect to it and start the backup.

> 
> On Mar 15, 2006, at 4:38 PM, Jan Schaumann wrote:

> >Still not quite there, but at least I have a working backup system.
> >I've installed amanda from pkgsrc [1],
> 
> On OSX or on some other platform?

On OS X in this case.

> >I had to reboot the machine, and amanda no longer listens.  I don't  
> >know
> >what exactly the magic is that Mac OS X wants me to perform, but
> >apparently xinetd(8) is no longer starting the service which I  
> >added to
> >/etc/xinetd.d/amanda.
> 
> Is that script OK?  Are you using it along side the launchd stuff you  
> mention below, or separately?

I used to use it stand alone, no launchd involved.  And it worked just
fine, once I manually HUPped xinetd, but the problem was that it
wouldn't automatically be launched at boot time, so I tried to give
launchd a shot.

> "Getting Started with launchd"
> http://developer.apple.com/macosx/launchd.html
> 
> Man page for launchd(8)
> http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/ 
> man8/launchd.8.html
> 
> Man page for launchd.plist(5)
> http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/ 
> man5/launchd.plist.5.html#//apple_ref/doc/man/5/launchd.plist

Yupp, read all those.

> Perhaps it's something as simple as a permissions issue?  Or or  
> perhasp some load-order issue?

As best as I can tell, it seems to be a load-order issue.  But then
again, that's supposedly one of the things about launchd:  you don't
really get a decent launch order.  I don't even know in what order it
tries to start the services.

I thought it might start them in alphabetical order, so I renamed the
service to 'z-amanda.plist', so it would be started last.  However, that
didn't work.  It still was started before some other services at boot
time and didn't work.

-Jan

-- 
http://www.eff.org
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From jschauma at netmeister.org  Wed Mar 15 18:20:15 2006
From: jschauma at netmeister.org (Jan Schaumann)
Date: Wed Mar 15 18:13:49 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] amanda backup
In-Reply-To: <2487925F-4E10-4E3E-B039-E4627B025DAD@lesmuug.org>
References: <D70C5A00-45C2-498D-9A15-97596764FA33@23x.net>
	<20060305162720.GB11890@netmeister.org>
	<CBFEE11D-5926-4513-8E43-A8EC161322BF@23x.net>
	<6648D31D-AF96-4292-BE0A-EFCB7417062A@lesmuug.org>
	<20060305222336.GA8126@netmeister.org>
	<2EDE8D2B-7E66-4207-B3A1-CCC08243589B@lesmuug.org>
	<20060306034123.GB22236@netmeister.org>
	<20060315213809.GA16321@netmeister.org>
	<8807660C-7C31-4B1C-B46C-42733031C2E9@lesmuug.org>
	<2487925F-4E10-4E3E-B039-E4627B025DAD@lesmuug.org>
Message-ID: <20060315232014.GB18454@netmeister.org>

Isaac Levy <ike@lesmuug.org> wrote:
 
> From the launchd.plist(5) man page:
> 
> http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/ 
> man5/launchd.plist.5.html#//apple_ref/doc/man/5/launchd.plist
> 
> 
>     "OnDemand <boolean>
>      This optional key is used to control whether your job is  
> launched based
>      on demand or to be kept continuously running. The default is  
> true."
> 
> 
> Your script uses this OnDemand key, other scripts I found that I know  
> work (apple setup) do not use this key.

Well, that's because the way I use it is actually the default.  Some
other scripts do use it to allow the service to run continually (such as
cron or postfix) and others use it set to the default or leave it out to
only start on demand (ssh, for example).  But I did try it with and
without having this key, which made no difference.

> --
> Also, perhaps of use, I noted that smbd.plist uses:
> 
> 	<key>inetdCompatibility</key>
> 	<dict>
> 		<key>Wait</key>
> 		<false/>
> 	</dict>
> 
>     "inetdCompatibility <dictionary>
>      The presence of this key specifies that the daemon expects to  
> be run as
>      if it were launched from inetd(8).  This flag is incompatible  
> with the
>      ServiceIPC key."

Right, which is why I added this to the amanda.plist.

I'm quite sure that the plist itself, as is, is correct.  It does work
just fine when I manually 'launchctl load' it, after all.  It just
doesn't start automatically, *even though* it's actually loaded
automatically.  That is, after a fresh reboot, 'launchctl list' will
show me that org.amanda.amanda is a service that is running, only it
will not actually be running and nothing is listening on port 10080.

> If I were you I'd try hacking the startup script, copying directly  
> from some similar daemon- smbd perhaps- and see how it goes from  
> there...

That's exactly how I did come up with this plist. :-)

> The man page, and options, are dizzying IMHO...

Well, if they're accurate, then I think they're fine.  But then, I've
noticed that on OS X manual pages are not always entirely accurate.  Or
complete.  Or necessarily existant.

-Jan

-- 
'I have reached an age where my main purpose is not to receive
messages.' --- Umberto Eco, quoted in the New Yorker
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From jschauma at netmeister.org  Thu Mar 16 13:54:58 2006
From: jschauma at netmeister.org (Jan Schaumann)
Date: Thu Mar 16 23:18:41 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] launchd [was: amanda backup]
In-Reply-To: <20060315232014.GB18454@netmeister.org>
References: <20060305162720.GB11890@netmeister.org>
	<CBFEE11D-5926-4513-8E43-A8EC161322BF@23x.net>
	<6648D31D-AF96-4292-BE0A-EFCB7417062A@lesmuug.org>
	<20060305222336.GA8126@netmeister.org>
	<2EDE8D2B-7E66-4207-B3A1-CCC08243589B@lesmuug.org>
	<20060306034123.GB22236@netmeister.org>
	<20060315213809.GA16321@netmeister.org>
	<8807660C-7C31-4B1C-B46C-42733031C2E9@lesmuug.org>
	<2487925F-4E10-4E3E-B039-E4627B025DAD@lesmuug.org>
	<20060315232014.GB18454@netmeister.org>
Message-ID: <20060316185458.GC15635@netmeister.org>

Jan Schaumann <jschauma@netmeister.org> wrote:
 
> I'm quite sure that the plist itself, as is, is correct.  It does work
> just fine when I manually 'launchctl load' it, after all.  It just
> doesn't start automatically, *even though* it's actually loaded
> automatically.  That is, after a fresh reboot, 'launchctl list' will
> show me that org.amanda.amanda is a service that is running, only it
> will not actually be running and nothing is listening on port 10080.

I believe the problem is that the binary is located on a different
Volume than the root Volume.  So at boot time, whenever launchd actually
starts all the services, the other Volume is not yet mounted.  When I
log in lateron, it is mounted and re-starting the service works.

launchd does not seem to allow you to specify a specific order -- I
believe that that is actually somehow argued to be an advantage of
launchd.

In NetBSD, I can specify which partitions need to be mounted before the
system tries to start anything else, but I take it that under OS X
that's not possible.  Probably one more of those ``Oh, why would anybody
want to do _that_?  Let's make it impossible.'' Apple things.

Prove me wrong.  Please. :-)

-Jan

-- 
``Californians have gotten to the point of being completely intolerant
of non-diversity.'' -- Larry Wall
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From bob at redivi.com  Thu Mar 16 20:29:13 2006
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Thu Mar 16 23:34:51 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] launchd [was: amanda backup]
In-Reply-To: <20060316185458.GC15635@netmeister.org>
References: <20060305162720.GB11890@netmeister.org>
	<CBFEE11D-5926-4513-8E43-A8EC161322BF@23x.net>
	<6648D31D-AF96-4292-BE0A-EFCB7417062A@lesmuug.org>
	<20060305222336.GA8126@netmeister.org>
	<2EDE8D2B-7E66-4207-B3A1-CCC08243589B@lesmuug.org>
	<20060306034123.GB22236@netmeister.org>
	<20060315213809.GA16321@netmeister.org>
	<8807660C-7C31-4B1C-B46C-42733031C2E9@lesmuug.org>
	<2487925F-4E10-4E3E-B039-E4627B025DAD@lesmuug.org>
	<20060315232014.GB18454@netmeister.org>
	<20060316185458.GC15635@netmeister.org>
Message-ID: <4245994F-7ED9-4F17-AD15-C1F0A2490582@redivi.com>


On Mar 16, 2006, at 10:54 AM, Jan Schaumann wrote:

> Jan Schaumann <jschauma@netmeister.org> wrote:
>
>> I'm quite sure that the plist itself, as is, is correct.  It does  
>> work
>> just fine when I manually 'launchctl load' it, after all.  It just
>> doesn't start automatically, *even though* it's actually loaded
>> automatically.  That is, after a fresh reboot, 'launchctl list' will
>> show me that org.amanda.amanda is a service that is running, only it
>> will not actually be running and nothing is listening on port 10080.
>
> I believe the problem is that the binary is located on a different
> Volume than the root Volume.  So at boot time, whenever launchd  
> actually
> starts all the services, the other Volume is not yet mounted.  When I
> log in lateron, it is mounted and re-starting the service works.
>
> launchd does not seem to allow you to specify a specific order -- I
> believe that that is actually somehow argued to be an advantage of
> launchd.

Instead of ordering, you specify dependencies via Uses/Requires/ 
Provides keys.  This lets launchd calculate an order that makes  
sense, and do independent things in parallel.  That's what makes it  
fast, because it doesn't have to do everything in serial in some  
specific order.

> In NetBSD, I can specify which partitions need to be mounted before  
> the
> system tries to start anything else, but I take it that under OS X
> that's not possible.  Probably one more of those ``Oh, why would  
> anybody
> want to do _that_?  Let's make it impossible.'' Apple things.
>
> Prove me wrong.  Please. :-)

Don't know this one.

-bob

From jschauma at netmeister.org  Fri Mar 17 09:39:49 2006
From: jschauma at netmeister.org (Jan Schaumann)
Date: Fri Mar 17 09:33:22 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] launchd [was: amanda backup]
In-Reply-To: <4245994F-7ED9-4F17-AD15-C1F0A2490582@redivi.com>
References: <6648D31D-AF96-4292-BE0A-EFCB7417062A@lesmuug.org>
	<20060305222336.GA8126@netmeister.org>
	<2EDE8D2B-7E66-4207-B3A1-CCC08243589B@lesmuug.org>
	<20060306034123.GB22236@netmeister.org>
	<20060315213809.GA16321@netmeister.org>
	<8807660C-7C31-4B1C-B46C-42733031C2E9@lesmuug.org>
	<2487925F-4E10-4E3E-B039-E4627B025DAD@lesmuug.org>
	<20060315232014.GB18454@netmeister.org>
	<20060316185458.GC15635@netmeister.org>
	<4245994F-7ED9-4F17-AD15-C1F0A2490582@redivi.com>
Message-ID: <20060317143949.GA3679@netmeister.org>

Bob Ippolito <bob@redivi.com> wrote:
> 
> On Mar 16, 2006, at 10:54 AM, Jan Schaumann wrote:

> >launchd does not seem to allow you to specify a specific order -- I
> >believe that that is actually somehow argued to be an advantage of
> >launchd.
> 
> Instead of ordering, you specify dependencies via Uses/Requires/ 
> Provides keys.

Interesting.  That's a useful thing, which I'm used to from NetBSD's rc
system.  Where is this documented?  (Doesn't seem to be in
launchd.plist(5), and none of the existing files in
/System/Library/LaunchDaemons has an example.)

-Jan

P.S.:  FWIW, I added an entry to root's crontab to unload and reload the
amanda launchd plist via '@reboot'.  Since cron kicks is later, after
the volumes have been mounted, this actually works, but it's obviously a
hack.

-- 
chown -R us:enemy your_base
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From george at galis.org  Wed Mar 22 19:55:47 2006
From: george at galis.org (George Georgalis)
Date: Wed Mar 22 19:55:55 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] LAMP and Asterisk employee needed
Message-ID: <20060323005547.GD2474@sta.duo>

Subject: [asterisk-biz] LAMP and Asterisk employee needed
From: Robert Wolpov <rob@junctionnetworks.com>
Reply-To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:19:08 -0500
To: asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510
Return-Path: asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com
List-Id: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion
	<asterisk-biz.lists.digium.com>

We are growing and looking to hire an operations guru with the following
profile:
 
Technologies:
Linux
Apache
MySQL
PHP
Asterisk
 
Skills:
Network operations
Network monitoring
Some development work
Testing
Telecom vendor management
 
Location:  
New York City area
 
Timing:
Immediate
 
We are looking for a full time employee.  We will consider a contract
arrangement with the expectation of a move to full time if it goes well.
 
This is an exciting opportunity to join a profitable and quickly growing
VoIP service provider.  
 
Please send me your resume and contact information if you are interested.  
 
If you are not interested but know someone who might be, please feel free to
forward this message on.  
 
Thanks in advance!
 
Regards,
Rob Wolpov
rob@junctionnetworks.com
215-701-3050 ext. 7002
From george at galis.org  Thu Mar 30 16:46:55 2006
From: george at galis.org (George Georgalis)
Date: Thu Mar 30 16:47:04 2006
Subject: [macosx-unix] laptop for sale...
Message-ID: <20060330214655.GA7099@sta.duo>

Hi Folks,

Cannot make it to meeting tonight. but was
wondering, how does one go about selling a
PowerBook?

  Machine Name:	PowerBook G4 15"
  Machine Model:	PowerBook5,6
  CPU Type:	PowerPC G4  (1.2)
  Number Of CPUs:	1
  CPU Speed:	1.67 GHz
  L2 Cache (per CPU):	512 KB
  Memory:	1 GB
  Bus Speed:	167 MHz

It is in near new condition, with 0.9 of 3 years
used on transferable Apple warranty. My new employer
needs to own my system, so they will be buying me a
new one. :-)

// George


-- 
George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator <IXOYE><
http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george@galis.org